Paul Walsh, the Irish Opportunist

Surprised at you level of diplomacy here Mr Walsh
Is this the all new Paul?

Please accept my sincere apology Pat. They’re scum bags! Howz that?

Why anybody in our industry would use a recruitment agency in this day and age is beyond me. If you are well enough networked and have some cop on staff are easy to find/headhunt

Hi Paul, I understand the frustration, there is a lot of cowboys out there. You obviously haven’t worked with a good recruitment company yet.

@Jan, you’re right. I haven’t worked with a good recruitment company. Given that I was a client and candidate for over 10 years, what does that say about recruitment companies?

Niall: I agree there is a lot of candidates available, but quantity doesn’t mean quality. I do have a few roles where I can’t find people or enough of good people because the skill set and requirements are very specific. If you are looking for your 1st level support guy or a junior web developer you can pick them off the street but not on the higher level - senior consultants, good UI designers, project managers, CxO etc.

@Paul: I have been a candidate myself in the past and was not happy either, that’s why I’m trying to do my best and change things. Tough game though.

Hi Paul and Niall,

I’m always saddened to hear people of your standing dis’ the recruitment industry. I heard Colm Lyon of Realex maker a similar comment recently…I was flabbergasted.

I agree with some of the usual points one typically hears….

Yes, you ‘the employer’ can get recruits by advertising online through a myriad of channels….

Yes, there are some poor recruiters who don’t understand what their client need…..

and yes, if you can find someone then your quids in…

But the facts are, you can’t ever know if you have the best ‘employee’….because some people will not respond directly (in the same way some (like you!) won’t respond to recruiters).

As CEO’s responsible for your organisation’s success, surely this is the ultimate goal, regardless of the source?

So come on guys, just like there are poorly equipped recruiters, there are poor symantic web companies, and poor online cookery companies. But we don’t tar the good ones with same brush.

IMHO, slating the recruitment industry is a ridiculous and thoughtless comment to make.

Best
BArry
(PS..I spent 10 very successful years in the contract recruitment industry…)

Sorry Barry, but the vast majority of recruiters in my experience and in the experience of almost every person I’ve spoken to on the subject over the past 10 years, are a pain in the arse, they lie a lot, they overcharge wherever possible and they are generally scum bags. I’m sure there’s one out there apart from yourself, that doesn’t meet my ’success criterion’ for a recruiter.

After recruiters you have estate agents, used car sales men and of course, mobile phone sales people.

Jan and BArry

I am still with Paul on this one. I guess it is just entrepreneurs who need to watch every penny and know just how hard 10k is to earn. I can probably see some benefit to a larger company but I want to find the people myself as I’ll be working with them day in day out and i’ll be a better judge than somebody who doesn’t even know my company. I also think there is a massive amount of distrust because of the way recruitment companies market themselves by calling us non stop and bombarding us with emails. Very annoying

Recruiters, especially when it comes to contract work are in the business of leveraging their conflicts of interest: charge as much as possible from the end client, make the end consultant think they are paying a lot less so they can underpay the guy doing the work.

That alone speaks miles about the industry and the people in it, when their business model is to deceive both sides in a deal as much as possible

To me, recruiters are on the same level of scumhood as lawyers, used car salesmen and politicians.

@Niall: the calls / emails are just a result of a bad management where the key result is number of calls and not quality of service. You would be surprised how many big companies are more aggressive in terms of rates negotiation comparing to SME.

Have you ever asked yourself how much will it cost NOT to have the right person for your business? Say you need a good engineer tomorrow, otherwise you will miss out on a very interesting project. If you work with the right recruiter, he will give you 5 people straight off hand to pick the best one.

How may times did you meet a recruiter and fully explained what your business is, what you are looking for, what you do not like in candidates (and I agree, how many times did that recruiter understand what you are talking about)? I wanted to do a presentation for Bizcamp about how to find the right recruiter for your business but didn’t have the time :-(, will probably do it for the next one.

@Paul: re overcharging, this is very easy to get rid off. I always say to my clients how much the particular candidate is earning at the moment and how much they need to pay to get this candidate and how much is my rate. One of my core values is transparency. As I said you need to pick and partner with a good recruiter rather than a scum bag. It is harder to find one because we are sales people as well but once you find the right recruiter he can save you money in the end.

Barry - I think you either overlook or are unaware of one of the biggest problems employers have with recruitment agencies and that is a lack of morals.

I have had a recruiter put a great guy in a job for me - only to find him trying to entice the guy away 7 months later. You can see why the recruiter wants to do that - he gets a commission on getting this guy into a new job and there is also a chance he can get a commission from me again for the replacement I would need. Thank god the employee had some morals and told me about it - that was the end of that recruitment agency.

There are significant flaws in the relationship with recruiters in that it is always in their interest for you to have employment issues and that they have great reasons to poach your employees.

Get these issues fixed and you will get a better image for recruiters - otherwise just deal with the fact that the industry deserves the press it gets.

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@Al: Apart from the moral thing poaching people I have placed is a very shortsighted strategy, company will find out anyway and I will loose a client and a candidate as well. Makes no sense to me.

Sooner or later the recruitment business model will be rendered redundant. Hopefully sooner!

Simple analogy.. you choose a bad restaurant…you get the squits….you suffer….do you now tell people that they shouldn’t eat? No, of course not.

It’s simple…choose carefully who you get in to bed with - in every relationship you get into! Afterall, that would be the sensible business decision to make.

And no, @al briggs, I haven’t overlooked anything - I know the industry inside out, I’m aware of all the practices that go on - my point is it’s just totally dumb to suggest that ALL recruiters are immoral, etc.

Best
BArry

Much as I agree with the sentiment of the original post, I have to admit Barry Alistair is completely right when he says it is “just totally dumb to suggest that ALL recruiters are immoral”. That statement is too much of an absolute and doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

Darn. And I so wanted to give recruitment agents a good kicking myself too.

@Barry - it would be better put… ‘if you eat in a dodgy restaurant in a dodgy part of town where almost all restaurants are, er, dodgy - should you eat in one or walk into a shop and buy a bar of chocolate?

@Paul: a shop being different (good) recruitment agency than? In your analogy with dodgy restaurants you should be growing the food yourself rather than using a 3rd party supplier.